Navigating a deeply divided, polarized world filled with vulnerable souls to the siren calls of conspiracy theories, I find it essential to shine a light on the shadows where undue influence thrives. In this discussion with historian Ruth Ben-Ghiat, we discuss the subtle and often sinister ways authoritarianism intertwines with the psychological mechanisms of control. We connect the dots from my experiences with cults and coercive persuasion. Ruth Ben-Ghiat is an NYU professor and expert on fascism and authoritarianism, a celebrated author, MSNBC columnist, and consultant, including for del Toro’s Oscar-winning ‘Pinocchio.’